design a bwl frm a bd...

Discussion in 'Bowl From A Board Forum' started by John Payton, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. John Payton

    John Payton PRO Member

    Perhaps i am overthinking this (or maybe not thinking clearly at all)...

    ...but I am interested in making a bowl from a board (first time)..
    so, other than just using one big board from one species of wood,
    what happens when you start cutting/gluing back together different woods to make different designs,

    ...how does one go about figuring out before you cut a glued up 12" x 12" board of different shapes of different woods...what it will look like when cut into rings to make the bwl frm a bd..???
     
  2. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    When I started getting interested in the Bowl from a Board process earlier this year, I had the same questions and so I started doing some work on this very topic. Instead of experimenting in the shop, though, I started in SketchUp where I was pretty sure that I could model this technique. I'm happy to report that not only was it possible, it wasn't too difficult.

    I started with a Lamination PRO 2nd generation board cut into four radial segments. I used that design to make a 9"x9" x 3/4" board in SketchUp and then converted it into a Bowl from a Board with a curved profile. Here was the result which shows the board I started with and the bowl it created:

    Screen Shot 2012-07-21 at 6.58.20 AM.jpg

    This got me more interested in this process to the extent that I am now working on a new piece of software that is specifically addresses the Bowl from a Board process. I still have a lot of work to do on it, but it is going to be really something. You'll be able to select from a number of profiles (or create your own) and specify the thickness of the board, the number of tiers and desired width of the base. You'll even be able to give it a picture of the board you want to use and see what it will look like as a bowl.

    The best news is that it will also come with a new jig that will forever change how you will make a Bowl from a Board. It will be easy and completely safe - two things that are not currently associated with this process. It will also provide a level of accuracy that will let you create thinner walls than are currently achievable and a bowl that will require very little wood removal when put on the lathe.

    I can't wait to share this with the community, but it needs a lot more work before I do.

    Lloyd
     
    Tony Forsyth likes this.
  3. david grady

    david grady PRO Member

    I'm in eager anticipation mode !!
     
  4. John Payton

    John Payton PRO Member

    Nothing short of awesome Lloyd...any chance of an update..especially for those of us unable to attend the symposium..??



     
  5. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    We decided to switch my presentation on the Bowl from a Board to a Software Roundtable where Bill Kandler and I will show our software and talk about the future of segmenting software. I look forward to listening to attendees talk about what they would like to see in future versions of the software.

    Since the focus was changed, I haven't had a chance to spend more time on the Bowl from a Board jig. I'll try to do that when I return next week and see where we go from there.

    Lloyd
     
  6. Bernie Morellini

    Bernie Morellini PRO Member

    Lloyd, I am really looking forward this new software and jig. I have enjoyed using your programs...they have made life so much easier.
    Bernie M
     
  7. Mark Lisowski

    Mark Lisowski New Member

    LLoyd - do you have an update on the software and jig?

    Thanks
    Mark
     
  8. Kenny D

    Kenny D PRO Member

    Is no news good news?
     
  9. Mark Lisowski

    Mark Lisowski New Member

    Lloyd,

    Is there any news about the software and jig for Bowl from a Board? Still, very interested to see what you came up with for the jig.
     
  10. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    Hi Mark,

    I'm planning on semi-retiring after my current consulting gig is up later this month and I'll be devoting all of that time to Woodturner PRO. I have thought about just posting the directions on how to make the jig, but having seen several of my ideas turned into products by others, I've been hesitant to do that. When I made my earlier post, I hadn't started on my consulting project and thought that I would have more time available to work on it.

    I do promise to make a decision one way or the other soon, though, and will let you know as soon as I do.

    Lloyd
     
  11. NoviceTurner

    NoviceTurner New Member

    As a green novice here and what little I know of lamination, may I ask, is the board pictured sections of different boards fitted and glued together and then used on a circle master or ring master etc to create stackable rings which are then glued and somehow mounted and turned???????


    Thank you for your time and patience…….
     
  12. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    The picture shown is a drawing I created in SketchUp, but it accurately shows what the bowl would look like if cut from that board. The board itself can be created from a 2nd generation design from Lamination PRO. All of the cuts for that board are made at 45 degrees. The board pictured started with five strips and then cut at 45 degrees into strips that were then glued together to make a 1st generation chevron pattern. That board was cut at 45 degrees through the declining centers and glued together to make a 2nd generation board that has a 'sine' pattern. Finally, that board was cut into radial segments at 45 degrees. So although it looks like a complex design, it is very simple to make.

    To make the bowl from the board, you could either use a Ring Master (I'm not familiar with a circle master) of by starting with two halves and cutting concentric rings on a bandsaw with a tilted table. Finally, you can use a scroll saw with a tilted table to cut complete circles which are then stacked.

    Please let me know if you have additional questions.
    Lloyd
     
  13. Mark Lisowski

    Mark Lisowski New Member

    Lloyd,

    Any word on your new Bowl-from-a-Board software and jig plan?
     
  14. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    I'm making headway on the software, but the jig is going to have to wait until I retire later this year. I've just got a few too many balls in the air right now.
    This darned work sure gets in the way of the real important stuff. :->
     
  15. John Payton

    John Payton PRO Member

    Nag nag nag :)
    Apologies, really don't mean to be a (big) nag...Lloyd, sent you an email yesterday, not sure if it went because my activity shows as 'none'...
    so, anyway...any update on software/hardware..??
     
  16. John Payton

    John Payton PRO Member

    OK, well...no reply in over a week for email nor to my question here on the forums...no matter, just ordered my RingMaster that will fit on my lathe...am sooooo looking forward to trying our my new hardware toy.

    Anyone else use the RingMaster..??..and now to figure out how to use SketchUp for designing..!!..anyone played with SketchUp know how to do that..??
     
  17. mfisher

    mfisher Super Moderator Staff Member

    Your best bet is to search the internet. There are some good lessons on using sketchup in woodworking

    This one is a quick article specific for lathes
    http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/22170/sketchup-and-the-lathe

    This site is more general for wood construction
    http://sketchupforwoodworkers.com/

    I have not done much with a ringmaster, but why can't you use WTP to do the design of your bowl. Then you can determine how the rings can be cut from a board on the ringmaster.

    I prefer to do segmented bowls than what a ringmaster produces. Segmented bowls really opens the shape/design possibilities.

    Check out the tutorials on this site. There is a good vid on how to use sketchup for your featured ring design and how to bring it into WTP.

    Have a good one.
     
  18. John Payton

    John Payton PRO Member

    mfisher, thanks for the reply..!!

    most of those links are for flatworkers...also, admittedly and ashamedly, i have not installed and played with SketchUp yet. The design portion of Woodturner Pro can do all of what you posted, and actually better IMHO) than SketchUp. I did do a quick review of basic SketchUp and it actually seems like it would be fairly simple to make a bowl in SketchUp..(at least simple unless you wish to take advantage of the software that Lloyd keeps referring to that he is working on :) ... I posted the first question about BFB (see the first post in this thread) and Lloyd replied with an excellent info (see the second post in this thread)...that was in May of 2012..!..don't misunderstand, I would love to see Lloyds software/hardware, I just ran out of patience ;(
     
  19. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    John,

    I did reply to your post in the Forum but it was on the same day that the site was under attack from spammers in Eastern Europe. That evening, I had no choice but to blow away the entire site and reinstall it from the prior day's backup. Anything entered that day was lost and I forgot to go back and re-enter my reply.

    To recap what I said in the reply, I am not going to go into production on the BIAB jig at this time but hope to do so in the future. Instead, I am going to prepare a set of plans that our members can use to build their own jig. I first have to improve the drawings and get them in a better format and that will have to wait until after my daughter's wedding (late next week) and a week's vacation immediately after that.

    The jig will be easy to use and I think you will agree that it is a forehead slapper, but it will certainly have its limitations. You will be very happy with your RingMaster.

    With regards to SketchUp for designing BIAB. I'm attaching a model that shows you how I do it. On my to-do list (which is three times longer than the time I have available) is a new piece of software that will automate this process and show you in Realtime 3D what your bowl will look like as you change the shape of the Bezier curves and modify the parameters. It will even let you use a jpg of the board you want to use to show you exactly what it will look like. It will be very cool and could really drive the popularity of the BIAB technique. I'm just not optimistic about getting it done anytime soon.

    Sorry for the delay in re-posting this. These spammers are wrecking havoc on websites that have active content such as Forums. There is nothing of value on the site as it containg zero sensitive data. It appears to be more the thrill of making webmasters lives difficult.

    The model is not necessarily instructive as I did not make it to be instructional but here is some help on how to create your own model. The top row of three vessels is not the starting point. The next row is where to begin.

    First, create a rectangle and then make construction lines that divide the height of the rectangle into how many rows you want. In this case I used seven rows.

    Next, draw a Bezier curve to represent the shape of the wall profile. Remember that this curve is simply to help you identify the cut locations and the resulting bowl will have a profile that resembles the curve.

    Next, create vertical construction lines that intersect the curve and the horizontal construction lines.

    Next, draw a rectangle which is the actual thickness of the board you'll be using. Then use the Pen tool to draw lines from the intersection of the vertical construction lines and the top and bottom of the board. Then offset those lines with a second line that will identify the kerf of you bandsaw blade or the blade of your RingMaster.

    Finally, make copies of the trapezoids you have just created and move them vertically until the rows are created as seen in the next row down. I used this part of the model and the Follow-Me tool to actually create the image of the finished bowl. To the finished bowl, you can add a 'projected' image to paint each row to see exactly what the finished bowl will look like.

    You'll see that I repeated this process with a 1/2" board for the first vessel and as you can see, you simply get a similar profile that produces as shorter bowl. In the second vessel, I did exactly the same technique but used a different Bezier curve. The third vessel is where I combined the top three rows of the first vessel with the bottom four rows of the second vessel and would have gotten a fourth vessel combining the other rows but didn't model that.

    I put this SketchUp process solidly in the Intermediate category and wouldn't recommend trying this as a first SketchUp project. You'll see that it is very simple after you understand the basics, though. I can start from scratch and do the entire model in a couple minutes.

    Please let me know if you have any questions.

    Lloyd
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Mark Lisowski

    Mark Lisowski New Member

    Lloyd,

    Any progress on the plans for the new Bowl-from-a Board jig?
     

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