Wedgie VS Lloyd's sled

Discussion in 'Jigs and Tools Forum' started by Fishernuts, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Fishernuts

    Fishernuts New Member

    I know it's a loaded topic, but I need to ask. Anyone that has used both sleds which one do you go back to using and why? I'm currently in need of making a sled and love the adjustable nature of both without creating a pile of sleds to do a single angle. Actually was curious how many really change their segment angles that often or keep a favorite one or two angles.

    I'm looking at closed segmenting and of course would like to dabble with open segmenting when I get some experience at it. I've got both sets of plans and as tempting as it is to make both, I'm trying to get something workable in a few days, I've got some time off and would love to spend it in the shop making bowls and not a pile of shavings with nothing to show for it other than offerings for the fireplace.

    Looking for insight and suggestions.

    John
     
  2. martyn

    martyn PRO Member

    hi john welcome to the forum,

    i have made both sleds and both are great in there own way.For closed segmented rings i alway turn to the wedgie jig, i have purchase all the wedgie template and using them i can set the wedgie jig perfectly to produce perfect joint every time, the wedgie sled with the templates really is a fool proof system. Now if you are you are producing open segmented vessels then the wedgie jig will be no good, in this situation you really need lloyds sled which provides a easy way to cut multiple open segments at once in a safe manor.

    so sorry to say my answer to you would be you need both sleds unless you plan on specialising on either open only or closed only vessel. Maybe build the sled you are needing for your current project first and build the other as and when you require it. I have table sled coming out of my ears and love them all they are invaluable to me.

    hope this helps
     
  3. Fishernuts

    Fishernuts New Member

    Martyn,
    I appreciate the insight, that does make sense. I was looking primarily closed and seeing which version to make it in. But I have almost finished a Wedgie sled build and can see an open segment Lloyds in the near future. I'm picking up a 30/60/90 triangle locally then will see about getting some wedgies after Christmas, Birthday money comes 1.5 week after Christmas. Was a pain when young to wait when stores restocked toys, but now as an adult and 24/7 internet shopping it's no problem. I always enjoy my deliveries from the postman and the Brown Santa. Nova center came tonight, anxious to clean the grease off and play with it.
    John
     
  4. Fishernuts

    Fishernuts New Member

    I finished my wedgie sled, it's rough but works. Still need a wedge, will pickup a triangle. I used my table saw miter gauge and set it to 15 deg both right and left and set both fences. Rough cut some junk particle board by eye so all 12 pieces are not identical before segmenting. Gentle sanding and the fit was good without gaps.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have not yet added the ramp for the -0- clearance, it's in the photo on the jig. I'm anxious to make my first segmented bowl, it's due Sunday as a Christmas present. Cutting it close, but I'm on schedule. Thanks to all for sharing on this site.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
  5. martyn

    martyn PRO Member

    looks good i love the plywood knobs, make sure your fences are straight and you'll get nothing but success from it, wedgies seem expensive but they are worth there weight in gold. have u looked at the Llyods stomper system as well with the seg-easy plates for making open segment vessel too might be worth a look. I believe internet shopping is a curse as it steals all my money, our postman is built like the incredible hulk after carrying all my parcels, i am sure he hates me lol
     
  6. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    John,

    To be clear, this discussion isn't really correct in comparing the wedgie approach to my sled approach as I also use the wedgie system and think that it is brilliant. I designed my sled primarily to cut segments for open segment vessels and it is the best way to do it, IMHO because of the flip stop and the ability to safely cut multiple segments and have a zero clearance fence where the wood is supported on both sides of the saw cut.

    However, if I am cutting segments for closed segment rings, I typically grab my Dubby sled (http://in-lineindustries.com) as the huge protractor on it allows me to make cuts that are dead-on accurate. The wedgie system is based on a complimentary approach, meaning that it doesn't matter if a 15 degree angle is 15 degrees. If it is 14.9 degrees, the next cut (the complimentary angle) will be 15.1 degrees and the ring made by the segments will always make a ring with no gaps. Visually, the ring is perfect, even though none of the angles are correct. The beauty of the wedgie approach is that you can deliberately take advantage of inaccuracies by tilting the blade, skewing the angle to be more inaccurate, etc., and using this as part of a design.

    So the traditional and the wedgie approach are simply different ways to skin a cat. With a dubby-like sled, as long as the protractor scale is correct (mine has been at the exact same location for years), you can instantly switch to any number of segments, including odd numbers, and make a perfect ring with no gaps between the identical segments. With the wedgie solution, you simply need to have an accurate wedge for each number of segments and a sled with two perfectly parallel fences and you can create rings without gaps from segments that have two different angles. You simply have to make sure that the segment orientation follows all the rules.

    Tomato, tomahtoe.
    Lloyd
     
  7. martyn

    martyn PRO Member

    Yes that what i meant, i also have a dubby sled too, i use it to joint feature rings that need jointing presicesly so they line up right. For plain rings i use the wedgie jig. When using the dubby sled the tiniest error is multiplied by the number of segment can cause gaps
     
  8. Fishernuts

    Fishernuts New Member

    I think both the Wedgie and Lloyds sled are pure genius, I can see both in my future. I just didn't clean my shop to make room for a shelf full of single purpose jigs for a single angle. I must have got lucky,I cut a sample ring last night looked good. Did my measurements and made another size ring and looks great, I went 'doh the calc said Radius no wonder the ring is huge. :eek: So I backtracked it and got the measurement process in my head straight. Cut one right on the money.Got the good wood almost cut and now a "member of the segmented trick shot off the ceiling." One more cut and only lost one piece off the blade,bounced to he ceiling and knocked another off the table before disappearing in a cloud of sawdust on the floor.

    I'm already a member of "the thrown drill chuck", I never drill on the lathe without holding the chuck by hand now, almost broke a new bit, still have a small scratch on the cabinets when it took a tour of the shop. I sound like a goof and unsafe fellow, so far from the truth it's funny. I'm the safest guy I know, learning sometimes has a curve.

    I'll get my rings cut and glued up tonight, need to turn and finish them on Sat.

    I have been eyeing both the wedgies, seg-easy plates and the stomper. Santa is coming and I need to talk to him about this in more detail. Might have to get him and Mrs.Claus a bowl or two to get them motivated in my progress.

    Happy Friday.
    John
     
  9. martyn

    martyn PRO Member

    sounds like your a addict like the rest of us, expensive hobby this lathe malarky
     
    litletre likes this.
  10. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    John, nothing is more important to me than safet so I'll just add this to the discussion. If you have a segment that goes flying it sounds like you might be trapping the segment between the fence and the blade or a stop and the blade. At the time the segment is cut, it should be in free space with the only possible movement coming from slight contact with the blade that can push it towards you until it clears the blade. If there is any possibility of movement more than that, you need to change the technique. A flying segment should never be possible.
     
  11. Fishernuts

    Fishernuts New Member

    Segment travel was due to a build up of excessive cutoff segments piling up and user neglecting to stop saw an remove them, it was a just one more moment Mom and then I'll do it. So I know the magic number was 8 for this size before it took a oneway flight. I need to increase the angle of my cutoff wedge and setup a push block to knock them off the back of the saw and into a bucket or landing pad; or I've seen the vac usage to grab them off the table.
     
  12. Lloyd Johnson

    Lloyd Johnson Administrator Staff Member

    Grest. I suspected something like that, but I'd feel terrible if I didn't mention it and someone got hurt. Have fun and I'm anxious to see your finished project.
    Lloyd
     
  13. Hersch

    Hersch PRO Member

    I used the wedgie sled for my open segment vase. As long as you set one of the arms at the exact degree angle and just flip it over, I don’t see any problem.
     
  14. Gary Beasley

    Gary Beasley PRO Member

    Ive done one open segment form and used my wedgie sled to cut the segs. I did have to make a custom wedgie to get the right angle and looking on the wedgie site I see they have wedges for open segment as well. I did find I could get the best consistancy by marking the centerline of the arm swings on the sled and a centerline on the wedge and lined them up when setting the angle so both sides would be as close as possible. The nice thing about open segment is you dont need the dead on accuracy of the angle to make it work.
     
  15. Bob Beaupre

    Bob Beaupre Administrator Staff Member

    I do all my open segment now using my wedgie sled. I make my own wedgies with the open segment space the way I want it. I pretty much have what I want in open segment starting at 24 going up to 144
     
  16. Art Bodwell

    Art Bodwell PRO Member

    Agree with Bob. I do both open and closed segments on the wedgie sled. I also stack cut so I'm cutting 2-5 segments at a time depending on how thick the segments are. Similar to what Tom Lohman was doing on the miter saw in his early videos.
     

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