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Segmented Pro question

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
No matter how I adjust the thickness of the individual pieces in the wizard, I can not create the design as I have in the bowl view pic.
I think I have it the way it needs to be but I don't remember how I did it. Anyway, the repeat unit is 5.5 which is the SEL in WTP and the export region is 1.5 which is the ring thickness in WTP. Am I good so far?
But I still do not understand how to make them based on the cut instructions. I assume I need to make the individual boards like it shows in the wizard but then I have to make a cheveron and then follow these cut instructions? I cannot find how to go back to the first instructions.
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
No matter how I adjust the thickness of the individual pieces in the wizard, I can not create the design as I have in the bowl view pic.

You lost me Jim. In post 32 you posted an image of the urn you want to make with a diamond featured ring.
If it was created in LP what happened to the file?

As far as the error you posted in post 59. Lloyd could explain it, Looks like your laminate setup is trying to get the software to divide by 0 or something. Delete the file, restart LP.

As you stated, I think you are wanting to build something that is above your skill level and understanding of the software. Don't know if you have access to any wood clubs in your area you could join or a Woodcraft / Rockler store that you could get some advice from.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
You lost me Jim. In post 32 you posted an image of the urn you want to make with a diamond featured ring.
If it was created in LP what happened to the file?

As far as the error you posted in post 59. Lloyd could explain it, Looks like your laminate setup is trying to get the software to divide by 0 or something. Delete the file, restart LP.

As you stated, I think you are wanting to build something that is above your skill level and understanding of the software. Don't know if you have access to any wood clubs in your area you could join or a Woodcraft / Rockler store that you could get some advice from.
I followed the instructions to save as a jpeg and import into species. You have helped more than enough and I understand you having enough and need to move on. I have the urn made up to the feature ring and am only trying to figure out how to build it so I can finish.
This software is not user friendly and I made a mistake in buying it.
Again, thanks for all your help.
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
I followed the instructions to save as a jpeg and import into species. You have helped more than enough and I understand you having enough and need to move on. I have the urn made up to the feature ring and am only trying to figure out how to build it so I can finish.
This software is not user friendly and I made a mistake in buying it.
Again, thanks for all your help.
Still willing to help. At times one needs more than a photo and more information on what you are doing.

I found the software to be easy to use. LP is a bit of a learning curve because of the multiple cuts. Sorry you feel the software is not user friendly.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Still willing to help. At times one needs more than a photo and more information on what you are doing.

I found the software to be easy to use. LP is a bit of a learning curve because of the multiple cuts. Sorry you feel the software is not user friendly.
*People stating the software is easy to use just makes me more frustrated. Not everyone is a wiz!
You already know what I am trying to create based on the bowl view.
Pic 1 shows the different board thicknesses to create the diamond shape I want. I need to glue these 3 boards together as the first step. Is this correct?
Question: what are the board widths? Not thickness as shown in the pic but widths
Pic 2 shows the chevron as needed to create the diamond I want. The boards from pic 1 need to be cut at a specific angle to create the chevron the glue them together. Is this correct?
Question: What is the angle needed to create the chevron
Pic 3 gives the cut instructions. These instructions are to be used on the chevrons created in pic 2. I then slide the 2 pieces of the cut chevron to form the diamond and then glue together. I then rip the diamond to create the 1.5" thickness (red box) which will be the thickness of the feature ring. I then cut the individual diamonds and finally add the 30 degree angle to both sides of each piece. Is this correct?
Question: Since the repeating piece size is 5.5" which is the size of the finished individual segment, do I need to make that bigger first to allow for the last cuts I described for pic 3?
*This sure looks like a lot of wasted wood (???)

Thank you
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Question.
How did you create the diamond featured ring that was used in the bowl view?

Thanks for the photos showing the setting in LP. I will take a look at it today.

Attached is an article written by Lloyd that gives some tips and tricks for LP.

Glenn. It would be helpful if I knew your level of experience building segmented vessels. It will help me in preparing a response that will have meaning for you.
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
"
Pic 1 shows the different board thicknesses to create the diamond shape I want. I need to glue these 3 boards together as the first step. Is this correct?
Question: what are the board widths? Not thickness as shown in the pic but widths
---------------------------------------------------------------
The board widths is what you set up in the lamination wizard. In your case you had board 1 and 3 (Walnut) at 1 1/2 wide. The center board is maple at 1/2 wide.

Yes. Your first step is to make the laminate. You stated that the stock you have is .94" think
You would glue the three strips together. The strips sizes is what you set up for the laminate. Walnut are 1 1/2 wide by .94 thick by at 44" long.
Or you could make two pairs of laminate 23" long.
If that is to long of a board for you, make two sets with the boards 23" long.

1624909210301.png
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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
To create the chevron from your board you need to.:
Using your cutting sled
- Set the miter angle ( )
- cut off the end
- set your stop block to the desired strip width
*** refer to the linked pdf for examples of cutting your laminate board.
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
There is a different way to make the diamonds featured ring that does not involve wasting as much wood. When you use the SW design and cut out that center , yes, a lot of wood is wasted.

Use the help feature in LP and look up the slide feature.
- I looked at your post 32 with the profile. Your diamond featured ring has a small walnut diamond in the middle.

- If you cut your laminate board into 2 3/4 wide strips at 15 degrees Glue the strips to make your chevrons.
You would take the glued up chevron board and cut it down the center length wise. You end up with a top and bottom half. Slide the top board over by the width of one single strip. Check for pattern uniformity and then glue the two halves together.

In LP, go to help. Lamination Pro help, search and type in slide for a more detailed explanation.
1624915072996.png
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jim.
I would suggest you try with some cheap wood to make a laminate of two colors and practice cutting and gluing.

The slide method will use a lot less wood. I attached a LP file Jims LP in the previous post. Down load it and see what you think
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
"
Pic 1 shows the different board thicknesses to create the diamond shape I want. I need to glue these 3 boards together as the first step. Is this correct?
Question: what are the board widths? Not thickness as shown in the pic but widths
---------------------------------------------------------------
The board widths is what you set up in the lamination wizard. In your case you had board 1 and 3 (Walnut) at 1 1/2 wide. The center board is maple at 1/2 wide.

Yes. Your first step is to make the laminate. You stated that the stock you have is .94" think
You would glue the three strips together. The strips sizes is what you set up for the laminate. Walnut are 1 1/2 wide by .94 thick by at 44" long.
Or you could make two pairs of laminate 23" long.
If that is to long of a board for you, make two sets with the boards 23" long.

View attachment 4420
-
See this is what confuses me. I had to make the board widths like you see to create the diamond I want. When I tried to adjust the widths in the wizard it would change the way the diamond looked. But, when I look at the chevron and diamond pictures I see them as the outside face of the ring. Wouldn't that be the thicknesses of the boards not the widths?
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
To create the chevron from your board you need to.:
Using your cutting sled
- Set the miter angle ( )
- cut off the end
- set your stop block to the desired strip width
*** refer to the linked pdf for examples of cutting your laminate board.
So when I cut the chevrons I am actually cutting to the SEL which is 5.5" and I cut them at 30 degrees because I need 6 of them. Is this correct?
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
There is a different way to make the diamonds featured ring that does not involve wasting as much wood. When you use the SW design and cut out that center , yes, a lot of wood is wasted.

Use the help feature in LP and look up the slide feature.
- I looked at your post 32 with the profile. Your diamond featured ring has a small walnut diamond in the middle.

- If you cut your laminate board into 2 3/4 wide strips at 15 degrees Glue the strips to make your chevrons.
You would take the glued up chevron board and cut it down the center length wise. You end up with a top and bottom half. Slide the top board over by the width of one single strip. Check for pattern uniformity and then glue the two halves together.


View attachment 4422
* I did not want the center circle in the diamond but at the time I did not know how to remove.
I did the design using the SW feature because in Lloyd's video he stated this was a better way. I will go back to the slide method.
Question? So I make the chevron by cutting 15 degrees and then after gluing together to form the diamond I cut at 30 degrees? If this is correct, disregard my question above this one about cutting chevron to SEL length.
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
See this is what confuses me. I had to make the board widths like you see to create the diamond I want. When I tried to adjust the widths in the wizard it would change the way the diamond looked. But, when I look at the chevron and diamond pictures I see them as the outside face of the ring. Wouldn't that be the thicknesses of the boards not the widths?
Yep. It can be confusing at times.

We can describe a segment and a board in terms of width, thickness and length.
in LP the software uses "width" to describe how wide of strips to cut out of the lamination board.

It is worth the time to read through the help file in the software. I know I have to go back to it often.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Jim.
I would suggest you try with some cheap wood to make a laminate of two colors and practice cutting and gluing.

The slide method will use a lot less wood. I attached a LP file Jims LP in the previous post. Down load it and see what you think
I think I'm understanding some of this. I cut the chevrons at 15 degrees because I need 2 chevrons for each top and bottom of the diamond. This means I will need 12 pieces for the top and 12 for the bottom. 12 segments in a ring get cut at 15 degrees. I only need 6 completed diamonds and 6 segments get cut at 30 degrees. Am I correct?
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
So when I cut the chevrons I am actually cutting to the SEL which is 5.5" and I cut them at 30 degrees because I need 6 of them. Is this correct?
To clear things up a bit.
You are going to cut strips out of your lamination board at some angle . If you want 30 degrees that is ok. The width of the cut strip needs to be 2.75" That is because two strips glued together to make a single chevron. that chevron makes one of your segments to make up the ring.
So the two strips glued together will be 5.5" wide.

If you looked at the LP file I attached for you the strips were cut at a 15degree angle. IMO, it matches more of the look in your original profile image in post 32.

To make your ring you will need to cut the chevron into a rectangle. That is cut of the tips. Then the rectangle block with will be
1.5 inches tall, .94 thick and 5.5 length. The ends have to be mitered to 30 degrees so as to make your 6 segment circle.
The block is set in on your cutting sled so it stands 1.5" tall.
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
I think I'm understanding some of this. I cut the chevrons at 15 degrees because I need 2 chevrons for each top and bottom of the diamond. This means I will need 12 pieces for the top and 12 for the bottom. 12 segments in a ring get cut at 15 degrees. I only need 6 completed diamonds and 6 segments get cut at 30 degrees. Am I correct?
To clarify some terms.
A chevron is just a pattern (zig zag) . Remember the old Standard Oil Chevron station signs.
Two strips glued together (one flipped) forms the chevron pattern. That block of wood made of two strips is one segment.

The 15 degree cut I proposed is for LP only. It is setting the angle of the strips you are cutting. The angle in LP only affects the pattern you can make.

One you have cut the board in half and slid the top half over to make the diamond pattern and re-glued. you will cross cut the laminate board into 6 segments. You will cut off the tips to produce a segment that is 1.5"x 5.5" x .94 . Standing the segment up to so it is 1.5 tall and 5.5 long, you will miter those ends to 30 degrees as called for on the WTP cutlist. Remember 6 segment circle = ( 360 / 6 segments) / 2 = miter angle for the segment.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
To clear things up a bit.
You are going to cut strips out of your lamination board at some angle . If you want 30 degrees that is ok. The width of the cut strip needs to be 2.75" That is because two strips glued together to make a single chevron. that chevron makes one of your segments to make up the ring.
So the two strips glued together will be 5.5" wide.

If you looked at the LP file I attached for you the strips were cut at a 15degree angle. IMO, it matches more of the look in your original profile image in post 32.

To make your ring you will need to cut the chevron into a rectangle. That is cut of the tips. Then the rectangle block with will be
1.5 inches tall, .94 thick and 5.5 length. The ends have to be mitered to 30 degrees so as to make your 6 segment circle.
The block is set in on your cutting sled so it stands 1.5" tall.
Dang, and here I thought I understood why the chevrons were cut at 15 degrees. So it is just a preference. Got it! And I set the cutting degree for the chevrons in the cutting details gen 1. Correct?
I also understand that the chevrons need to be cut at 2.75" because I need 2 for a total of 5.5"
The repeating units are the actual finished diamond correct? So I set that at 6 because I want 6 diamonds.
I read the help files and they are helpful however I am still confused with the term "width".
For this discussion lets assume that my board stock is 1" thick and 2" wide. So looking at the pic of the individual seg piece, my board stock thickness (1") will be the thickness of the seg piece and my board width (2") is the board width of the seg piece.
Now looking at the lam pic, I see my 3 boards (2 walnut and 1 maple) that are 1" thick for a total of 3". But, the lam wizard is labeling these as widths which would mean they are 2" each so I am looking at 6".
I need my finished ring to be around 1.75" wide (OD minus ID).
Where do I enter my board thickness (1") and my board width (1.75")? It does not appear that Lam Pro and myself are communicating correctly so obviously it is me that needs to change. I just do not know how.
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dang, and here I thought I understood why the chevrons were cut at 15 degrees. So it is just a preference. Got it! And I set the cutting degree for the chevrons in the cutting details gen 1. Correct?
I also understand that the chevrons need to be cut at 2.75" because I need 2 for a total of 5.5"
The repeating units are the actual finished diamond correct? So I set that at 6 because I want 6 diamonds.
I read the help files and they are helpful however I am still confused with the term "width".
For this discussion lets assume that my board stock is 1" thick and 2" wide. So looking at the pic of the individual seg piece, my board stock thickness (1") will be the thickness of the seg piece and my board width (2") is the board width of the seg piece.
Now looking at the lam pic, I see my 3 boards (2 walnut and 1 maple) that are 1" thick for a total of 3". But, the lam wizard is labeling these as widths which would mean they are 2" each so I am looking at 6".
I need my finished ring to be around 1.75" wide (OD minus ID).
Where do I enter my board thickness (1") and my board width (1.75")? It does not appear that Lam Pro and myself are communicating correctly so obviously it is me that needs to change. I just do not know how.
I think you are getting it.
Yes, the degree is set in gen 1.
You can play in LP. Bring up your file. Go to Gen 1 , select slide. set your export region (the red rectangle to 1.5"
Now play with the gen 1 and change the angle. The image will change instantly.
One thing I noted at 30 degrees the diamond will not fit in the rectangle , at 22 degrees the maple diamond just fits, at 15 degrees it fits well and the small walnut diamond is like your profile image.

In the in your post 78 images. The LP image you are looking at is the board width. Your laminate is made up of two walnut boards that are 1 inch thick and 2 inches wide. You also have one maple that is 1 inch thick and 2 inches wide. Glued together you have a laminate board that is 1" thick and 6 inches wide.

I think I see the problem. When building the laminate you are not stacking the boards on top of each other. If you did you would end up with a 3 inch thick board by 2 inch wide.
Lay out the boards so you are gluing the thickness edge to form a board that is 1 inch thick and 6 inches wide.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
I think you are getting it.
Yes, the degree is set in gen 1.
You can play in LP. Bring up your file. Go to Gen 1 , select slide. set your export region (the red rectangle to 1.5"
Now play with the gen 1 and change the angle. The image will change instantly.
One thing I noted at 30 degrees the diamond will not fit in the rectangle , at 22 degrees the maple diamond just fits, at 15 degrees it fits well and the small walnut diamond is like your profile image.

In the in your post 78 images. The LP image you are looking at is the board width. Your laminate is made up of two walnut boards that are 1 inch thick and 2 inches wide. You also have one maple that is 1 inch thick and 2 inches wide. Glued together you have a laminate board that is 1" thick and 6 inches wide.

I think I see the problem. When building the laminate you are not stacking the boards on top of each other. If you did you would end up with a 3 inch thick board by 2 inch wide.
Lay out the boards so you are gluing the thickness edge to form a board that is 1 inch thick and 6 inches wide.
SMH this was my biggest confusion and the cause to much of my struggle.
Does my individual board widths change the design if I change the widths? In my post (I think #65) I have the walnut at 1.5 and the maple at .5. Do I need to go back and mess with it using the same width for all of them?
Also, in the lam wizard for board width is that the thickness of my board?
Finally (I hope), if my feature ring needs a board width of 1.75" (give or take) do I have to double up all my boards ( 1" thick + 1" thick = 2" which would be the ring width. OD - ID)? Or find thicker boards.
 
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