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Segmented Pro question

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jim.
I take it your post 32 image was done from SP. That Urn had a height of 8 1/4 , width of 9 1/4 with a volume of 235 9/32.
Your Urn in post 39 wtp file, has a height of 7.51 , width of 8.75 with a volume of 219

I would not start your build till you have a better plan in WTP.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Yes I understand this but I had to change the thickness of the rings which was the reason of my post to begin with. Once I changed the thickness to what I needed it was too tall and large. So the shape changed.
Thanks for all your help!!!
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yes I understand this but I had to change the thickness of the rings which was the reason of my post to begin with. Once I changed the thickness to what I needed it was too tall and large. So the shape changed.
Thanks for all your help!!!
Jim. I recreated your urn. Attached is a Jim Urn Snap to Profile and a Jim Urn cutlist. The Jim Urn Cut list summary is what I would use to build the urn. The profile used was based on your post 32 image. The ring heights was based on your wtp file . Hope this helps.

1624071549003.png
 

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Jim Grieco

PRO Member
That is awesome! I can't believe you did all this for me. I do not have the words to thank you enough - but thank you! I know I have a lot to learn yet but at least I can start working on this right away. Very grateful!
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
That is awesome! I can't believe you did all this for me. I do not have the words to thank you enough - but thank you! I know I have a lot to learn yet but at least I can start working on this right away. Very grateful!
Your welcome.

You will notice the top ring is a segmented ring so the vessel is open. For a lid you could.

- make the top ring a disk and add a tenon to make it a plug type top.
- find a threaded lid kit on line

The most simple would be to make the top row a disk and and a smaller disk (plug) to the bottom it it.
Jim Urn lid.jpg
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Sorry to keep bugging you but I have another question. The boards I will be using for the segments are to wide for my sled if I use both guides. I was told to take the top guide off and just flip the boards after every cut. Is this correct? Also, the cut sheet states a 15 degree angle for everything but the feature ring. I will be using an angle gauge (see pic) so do I set it at 30 degrees or 15?
Thank you
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
- Set the angle to what the cut list call for. 12 segments angle needs to be 15 degrees, 6 segments angle needs to be 30 degrees.
360 degrees / number of segments / 2 = cut angle. or more simply reason for / 2 is your cutting both sides.
180 degrees / number of segments = cut angle

There are two methods of cutting segments on a table saw. One method uses one fence and the board is flipped each time. The other method is using two fences and moving the board from the top fence to be back fence.

Take a look at these vids. It will explain what I just posted.

Not sure what your board dimensions are before cutting. For example lets say you have a board that is 0.94" thick, by 8 inches wide and 36 inches long. You had 4 rings in your project that calls for .94 thick ring. (2,3,4,8) and are all the same wood type (red cherry?) You would rip from the blank one strip at 2.28" wide for ring 2, another strip at 1.6" wide for ring 3. etc. From these strips you will your segments.

When it comes to setting your stop block for the segment edge length that length needs to be measured along the fence after you set the miter angle. Do not measure at 90 degrees from the blade. Your SEL will not be correct.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Yes I understand the rest. Just was confused about the angle. I could have sworn someone on a video saying you had to split the angle. Maybe he was using a different sled or way of cutting. I've watched so many videos on turning I'm having trouble keeping track.
I cut my boards based on the cut sheet for each row. I made the sled based on the seg easy videos and my boards are to wide to use both guides so I will have to take off one.
Thanks for your help!
 

Glenn McCarron

PRO Member
I think you will do yourself a disservice by taking off one guide. The whole purpose of the segeasy sled is to have perfect joints. By using the cut and flip method you are at the mercy of how accurate the fence is set to give you the perfect angle. Being off the slightest amount will accumulate the error. The Segmentology videos are outstanding. Sometimes if I have a strip that is too wide I will use the backside of the guide without any problems.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Jim. I recreated your urn. Attached is a Jim Urn Snap to Profile and a Jim Urn cutlist. The Jim Urn Cut list summary is what I would use to build the urn. The profile used was based on your post 32 image. The ring heights was based on your wtp file . Hope this helps.

View attachment 4399
I am having trouble trying to create the feature ring. I changed the outside diameter so that I end up with a SEL of 5.5" to make it easier. Also, I do not need the walnut center in the diamond. So far I drew it out on graph paper to get the correct measurements and just cut the pieces and used a disc sander. (*I do not have any jigs for the sander) Is there an easier or better way? If not, I might have to change the design because I do not think I can make them like I tried. I have attached pics of how I am trying to do it. The diamond is not glued in yet and I need to sand off some of the walnut. I cannot get the rest to line up. Thank you
 

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mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jim. Not sure why you want to change the SEL. It looks like going from 5.4 to 5.5 will still give you enough room to keep the outside and inside profile. Looking at your drawing you should have the walnut pieces larger than needed. You will miter them to size.
cut list calls for 5.4 " segment. From the center of the diamond you would measure out 2.7" and cut one end at 30 degrees. Then flip the board and miter the other side. The miter is cut with the segment standing up. Like you were looking at it as a completed ring. (in your photo featured piece the diamond segment would be rotated 90 degrees up. then the ends mitered.

Here are two links in this forum on diamond featured rings.



T
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Jim. Not sure why you want to change the SEL. It looks like going from 5.4 to 5.5 will still give you enough room to keep the outside and inside profile. Looking at your drawing you should have the walnut pieces larger than needed. You will miter them to size.
cut list calls for 5.4 " segment. From the center of the diamond you would measure out 2.7" and cut one end at 30 degrees. Then flip the board and miter the other side. The miter is cut with the segment standing up. Like you were looking at it as a completed ring. (in your photo featured piece the diamond segment would be rotated 90 degrees up. then the ends mitered.

Here are two links in this forum on diamond featured rings.



T
It made easier math when drawing on graph paper. Thank you for the links
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Jim. Not sure why you want to change the SEL. It looks like going from 5.4 to 5.5 will still give you enough room to keep the outside and inside profile. Looking at your drawing you should have the walnut pieces larger than needed. You will miter them to size.
cut list calls for 5.4 " segment. From the center of the diamond you would measure out 2.7" and cut one end at 30 degrees. Then flip the board and miter the other side. The miter is cut with the segment standing up. Like you were looking at it as a completed ring. (in your photo featured piece the diamond segment would be rotated 90 degrees up. then the ends mitered.

Here are two links in this forum on diamond featured rings.



T
I've seen those links before. The ring is already designed. I just do not know how to make it. Thx
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jim
Think of your project as making two halves of the diamond (top and a bottom). If the diamond has 35 degree sides Cut two triangles that will form the top and bottom of the diamond. Keeping the same setting (35 degrees) cut a left and right board with the same miter angle. (Brown lines). The board needs to be the height of the triangle. You should get a good fit. The green rectangle runs the full length of the 1/2 diamond strip

You do not need to make the segment parts so they exactly make the 5.5" sel. Remember you got to miter the ends. So the total length of the glued up parts can be much larger. You would just measure from the center of the diamond out left and right 2.75" to make your diamond segment 5.5" sel.
 

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Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Jim
Think of your project as making two halves of the diamond (top and a bottom). If the diamond has 35 degree sides Cut two triangles that will form the top and bottom of the diamond. Keeping the same setting (35 degrees) cut a left and right board with the same miter angle. (Brown lines). The board needs to be the height of the triangle. You should get a good fit. The green rectangle runs the full length of the 1/2 diamond strip

You do not need to make the segment parts so they exactly make the 5.5" sel. Remember you got to miter the ends. So the total length of the glued up parts can be much larger. You would just measure from the center of the diamond out left and right 2.75" to make your diamond segment 5.5" sel.
Thank you. This makes a bit more sense than the video I found on YouTube. Are you suggesting to make the diamond more square (compared to my design) or is yours just an example? Also, if I want the boards (brown lines) to completely surround the diamond I just cut them wider, correct?
I have to redesign in LP because the original file did not save. All I have is the jpeg for the species file.
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
It is an example. You can make the diamond sides any angle you want. For example 35 degrees. The matching contrast piece would have one miter at 35 degrees so it will fit tight against the diamond side.

No. the brown piece needs to be the same as the diamond as far as height. The green piece would also be the same wood as the brown lined piece. I used green just to show it is a separate piece.

In my example the diamond segment is made up of 4 bottom pieces and 4 top pieces for a total of 8.
 

Jim Grieco

PRO Member
It is an example. You can make the diamond sides any angle you want. For example 35 degrees. The matching contrast piece would have one miter at 35 degrees so it will fit tight against the diamond side.

No. the brown piece needs to be the same as the diamond as far as height. The green piece would also be the same wood as the brown lined piece. I used green just to show it is a separate piece.

In my example the diamond segment is made up of 4 bottom pieces and 4 top pieces for a total of 8.
Thanks for all your help. I think I'm in over my head. I am trying to recreate the diamond to see how to cut the pieces and I am having no luck. Either the walnut is also a diamond or I keep getting error messages. I guess I have to just skip the diamond. Thanks again
 

mfisher

Super Moderator
Staff member
Jim. For your urn one thought is to just make a simple featured ring. It could be as easy as a contrasting wood like olive or mesquite. Both have interesting grain patterns. Here is a vessel I made in 2013 using cedar as the featured ring.

Another option is to just make a simple lamination of mixed wood layered to get to the 1.5 inch in height.

For me, it was always better to start simple and develop my skills before doing more complex things.
 

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Jim Grieco

PRO Member
Jim. For your urn one thought is to just make a simple featured ring. It could be as easy as a contrasting wood like olive or mesquite. Both have interesting grain patterns. Here is a vessel I made in 2013 using cedar as the featured ring.

Another option is to just make a simple lamination of mixed wood layered to get to the 1.5 inch in height.

For me, it was always better to start simple and develop my skills before doing more complex things.
Here is the error
 

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