Requesting clarification on a setting in LaminationPro

[Ed Korsberg]

It has been almost a year since I last did any segmented turning and using this software.
The last two attempts of making a feature ring segmented bowl were a bit disappointing.
The accuracy of my cuts and or general assembly resulted in a repeating pattern that was not correct.
The effect was quite visible in the end.
So I am trying again using a little different technique and trying to pay more attention to the details
As such I have a question regarding these instructions. When it says "Set table saw fence 1.14" from blade"
I assume that means from the fence to the inside edge of the blade (top arrow) and not to the outside of the blade (bottom arrow)
PS the chevron pattern in the photo is just a test piece to be discarded. I hope to construct a feature ring in which the pattern is consistent all the way around the 12 segment ring. If so then I could repeat the steps using the final intended woods (purpleheart, yellowheart, aspen)

 

[mfisher]

Hi Ed.
Been awhile since I have done anything in LP but will give you my 2cents worth.
- I have always measured from the fence to the inside of the blade (your top arrow).
- The measurement of 1.14 is based on your laminate board being 2.53" wide. If it is larger or smaller the 1.14 is not correct.
- I tend to mark the center that I want to remove on the laminate. I then move the fence so the saw blade cuts on the inside of the line. A good starting point is the measurement given by LP for center removal. Then adjust fence to meet the lines drawn
- After that it is a matter of cutting the strips to the planned width to make the pattern.

The key is accurate measurements and set up. It sometimes takes me more time in set up than actual cutting.

 

[Ed Korsberg]

Hi Ed.
Been awhile since I have done anything in LP but will give you my 2cents worth.
- I have always measured from the fence to the inside of the blade (your top arrow).
- The measurement of 1.14 is based on your laminate board being 2.53" wide. If it is larger or smaller the 1.14 is not correct.
- I tend to mark the center that I want to remove on the laminate. I then move the fence so the saw blade cuts on the inside of the line. A good starting point is the measurement given by LP for center removal. Then adjust fence to meet the lines drawn
- After that it is a matter of cutting the strips to the planned width to make the pattern.

The key is accurate measurements and set up. It sometimes takes me more time in set up than actual cutting.

Ok so did my measurements the cut the center strip out. I followed your advise and made measurements and marks on the laminate itself as it help reinforce the measurements were correct.
But next comes the remaining strips and the last time I did this I remember having issues on the outermost strip. I remember as the little triangles got cut off they had a tendency to become launched via the blade.

Also when cutting thin strips on a table saw, do most people cut the strips on right side of the blade (strip is between fence and blade) or do they cut with the strip on the left side of the blade (and thus open space to the left of the strip)

I have had problems in the past with cutting thin strips on the right.
I bought a jig for cutting on the left and it seemed to work well and produced consistent thicknesses.

One more question if I can pile on the questions. To produce these nice feature rings, is this lamination method the only way to produce those patterns (like the southwest designs) or are there alternate procedures for creating these patterns?
The lamination method seems like an ingenious way via successive cuts of a lamination but I wonder if there are more straight forward methods.

 

[mfisher]

I have cut thin strips both ways. If I am cutting a thin strip to the right of the blade (ex: 1/8" between blade and fence) I use the gripper.

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If I am cutting a thin strip to the left of the blade I have used jig similar to rocklers thin strip jig.

Here is an older vid on cutting thin strips on a table saw

I made featured rings without LP years ago. Such as diamonds and , thunderbirds without LP. W
Take your pattern you have from LP. You could cut strips from material you want to us. Maple, Holly, purple heart. of the same width.
- The center of your pattern looks like it is made up of purple heart and holly. Miter an end of a holly strip and purpleheart at the angle set by the pattern. glue the two pieces together. After the glue is dry would would need to cut the purpleheart to length based on your plan and miter the end. Then glue another piece of holly to the purple heart.
- Repeat for all layers.
As you can see it would be very time consuming and challenging when the pieces get small like the triangle.
Hence for some patterns LP is the safest way to go.

Have fun. Take you time. and enjoy the woodworking.

 

[Ed Korsberg]

Thank you that is helpful. I did recently get a jig almost identical to the rockler thin strip jig. I used it for the first time and it seems to work well.
But I have another clarification question.
What is the relationship between the "first cut width" setting in LaminationPro, the repeating unit (seems to be 2:1) and more importantly what does that relate to when you export this to WoodturnerPro? It seems to be related to the "Segment Edge Length" and "Outside Diameter"
It would be nice to know the formula
It also seems apparently what we need to do is experiment with the 3 or more settings to ensure the pattern as designed in LaminationPro translates in proper proportions to the segments that must be cut so as to replicate the intended look

 

[mfisher]

Hi Ed.

- In LP you should adjust your repeating unit to be as close as possible to your required segment edge length.
Use WTP and select your featured ring. See what the Segment Edge Length is. Use that number to set the repeating unit.

- In LP the export is an image of your pattern. It can be used in WTP as a wood species.

The finished LP board will need to be cut into blocks. Those blocks will then have to have the sides mitered to the proper angle.

LP is creating patterns. WTP is used to determine miter angle, segment edge length, and height of the segment.

The formula used by both WTP and Segment Pro is
Closed Segments: 360 / segments / 2
Example for 12 segments: 360 / 12 / 2 = 15 degrees

Open Segments: (360 - (segments * gap)) / segments / 2
Example for 12 segments with 8 degree gaps: 360 - (12 * 8) / 12 / 2 = 264 / 12 / 2 = 11 degrees

as far as segment edge length it is basically Diameter * Pi / number of segments.

 

[Lloyd Johnson]

Everything Mike says is correct, as usual. (Thanks Mike!)

There is something you need to consider when you use Woodturner PRO or Segment PRO to determine the SEL of the feature ring. If you use the SEL as the target for the Repeating Unit in Lamination PRO (which is what I do), you will end up with a board that has the desired number of RUs and each RU should be the desired SEL. But when you cut that board into segments, you are going to lose 1/8” from each segment because of the saw kerf and there are two ways to deal with this discrepancy.

First, you can add 1/8” to the target RU in Lamination PRO and that will give you the proper SEL to match the design.

Second, If you make the SEL match the RU width and then cut the board into segments, losing the 1/8”, you can restore the wood lost to the saw kerf by doing the following: When you stand each segment on its edge to cut the miter for making the ring, if you make the angled cut go to the edges of the SEL face of the segment, you have permanently lost that 1/8”. But if you adjust the position of the cut so that it leaves 1/16” flat surface before the angled cut begins, you will restore the missing 1/8”. This also makes cutting the angles easier. I first cut my board of repeating units into identical segments by cutting through the center of each RU edge which gives me the right number of pieces that are all 1/8” short of the desired SEL. I then stand the segments on edge and set a stop so that the first angled cut is 1/16” behind the front surface of the segment. You can then simply flip the segment by 180 degrees and the 1/16” surface makes it easy to position the segment on the same stop for cutting the final angled cut.

Either approach yields the same result. I just find it easier to match the SEL to the RU width and then holding the angled cut 1/16” from the face of the segment and it will be like the loss of the saw kerf never happened.

Please let me know if you have any questions about this.

Lloyd

 

[Lloyd Johnson]

Here’s a quick sketch of what I just described. I’m not at home or I would have made a Sketchup drawing of it but it should get the point across.

 

[mfisher]

Good tips Lloyd.
I have never given much thought of the lost .125 due to saw kerf. One reason is I tend to overbuild. If I want a 6 inch ring I will build a 6.125 or 6.25 diameter ring. I adjust the width of the segment to make sure I have ample glue surface between rings.
This way I can make my repeating units the SEL. I also do as you suggested in cutting the block to have the miter cut go right to the edge.

With your tip I will start making adjustment to how I plan within LP.