Not ready for Prime time

Apollo1617

Apollo1617

Member
I glued up my 1st 6 plates. Unfortunately, they moved. I went thru the side on the top 2 rows. What's the secret to keeping them lined up while gluing?? Also, what happens on the bottom?? I glued on a 4"x2" circle & screwed a face plate to that. If all had gone right, after turning in & out, how would I finish after removing the face plate??
 
segment said:
I glued up my 1st 6 plates. Unfortunately, they moved. I went thru the side on the top 2 rows. What's the secret to keeping them lined up while gluing??
Click to expand...
not sure what you are asking.
segment said:
Also, what happens on the bottom?? I glued on a 4"x2" circle & screwed a face plate to that. If all had gone right, after turning in & out, how would I finish after removing the face plate??
Click to expand...
There are various ways to cut the bowl off of the waste block faceplate. bandsaw, part it off of the lathe using a parting tool., etc.
As far as finishing the bottom, you can mount the bowl on a longworth chuck, or make a donut chuck to mount the bowl.

There are numerous videos that demonstrate the removal of the bowl from a face plate.
 
When I put glue on the 6 plates & put them in my glue press they must have slid off center from one another. Is there a way to keep them lined up?
 
I think I bought the 1 hour of phone time with my initial purchase. How would that work? What # and who would I call??
 
segment said:
I think I bought the 1 hour of phone time with my initial purchase. How would that work? What # and who would I call??
Click to expand...
If you are referring to phone support for Lloyd's software you would contact him. The company phone number is on the website.
 
segment said:
Ooops. Forgot to attach pictures. Sorry.
Click to expand...
Looks like you broke a few top rings. What happened? Those rings need to be cut off and rebuilt.

You can turn down to the waste block.
Once parted off the waste block you can finish the bottom of the bowl.

I personally don't use a press when stacking and gluing up the rings. I will use a 10lb weight on top of the ring.
As far a centering I generally use a ruler to check at four points around the ring to make sure it is centered to the one I am gluing it to.
 
segment said:
When I put glue on the 6 plates & put them in my glue press they must have slid off center from one another. Is there a way to keep them lined up?
Click to expand...
For best results you should only glue one layer at a time then flatten that layer on the lathe. I’ve had best results for alignment when glueing up on the lathe. I’ve used a Longworth chuck, Cole jaws and a flat plate with concentric circles for alignment. All work equally well but I prefer the Cole jaws. I’ve also used a glue press but occasionally would get some misalignment, mainly rotational. Never the kind of misalignment you got. I have no idea how you would keep six layers aligned if glueing all at once!
 
Last edited:
Thanks Mike. I thought my eyes would be enough to keep the plates aligned. I was wrong. I guess when I tightened the press they slid. You think I can save the bottom rows??
 
I glue on the lathe. I center using tapered cones. Perfect centering every time. I re-flatten the last ring with a sanding board then add the next. Sometimes I round the latest ring if it helps to align the new one. I rarely ever turn the insides.

Centering cones can be store bought or shop made. Everyone should own a 3/4-10 tap to make things to fit a live center.
Wayne
 
Short version: Mike's method is exactly the method I use on closed-segment rings.

Long version: This assumes the number of segments in your ring is a multiple of 4.
1. Grab the base in the headstock any way you wish and lock it. Put a chuck with Cole jaws on a live center in the tailstock.
2. Lightly grab your first ring in the Cole jaws using just 4 flathead screws. The edges of the screw heads bite into the ring and hold it very well and the marks will get turned away.
3. Without glue, lock the tailstock so the ring barely touches the base.
4. Turn the ring relative to the base and you will most likely find one place in the rotation where the ring rubs and spins freely 180 degrees later. This is because the ring faces are slightly out of parallel someplace.
5. Rock the ring back and forth within the loose area to find the point where it is still loose, then locate the nearest place your ring to ring alignment provides your desired pattern. Put matching marks on the fixed and moving rings so you can return to that spot easily.
6. Release the tailstock, glue up the ring, and lock the tailstock so that the rings almost touch.
7. Tighten the tailstock quill as you rotate the ring to evenly spread the glue across both faces of the new glue joint.
8. Rotate the ring to get the alignment marks you just made back in alignment then crank the quill down to provide the clamping pressure. This is where the tailstock prevents the ring from sliding eccentric.
9. Release the headstock lock and spin the complete headstock, piece, and tailstock by hand. Be sure your newest ring is running concentric to the headstock. This is why there's a live center in the tailstock.
10. Wipe off the glue squeezeout. Rotating the headstock makes that easy.
11. Optional - After 5 minutes, unlock the tailstock from the bed, back out the Cole jaws to allow you to pull the tailstock back, and wipe off the glue squeezeout on the inside of the new joint.
12. Lock the tailstock back against the newly attached ring and tighten the quill to provide clamping pressure for another few minutes. I find I can't get a new glue joint back apart after a total of 10 minutes of clamping using Titebond Original.

Repeat for each ring. In my shop, there are always tools to put away, floors to sweep, dogs to pet, or coffee to be traded in that few minutes I have to wait while the glue tacks up.
 
segment said:
Thanks Mike. I thought my eyes would be enough to keep the plates aligned. I was wrong. I guess when I tightened the press they slid. You think I can save the bottom rows??
Click to expand...
Sure, just part off the damaged, misaligned rows and replace with new. I wouldn’t part off completely on the lathe. You don’t want that piece with jagged edges flying around!
 
Wayne Miller said:
I glue on the lathe. I center using tapered cones. Perfect centering every time. I re-flatten the last ring with a sanding board then add the next. Sometimes I round the latest ring if it helps to align the new one. I rarely ever turn the insides.

Centering cones can be store bought or shop made. Everyone should own a 3/4-10 tap to make things to fit a live center.
Wayne
Click to expand...
I don't understand how you never turn the inside??
 
If it is an open form then I turn it later. Generally turn the outside form to final and then do the inside as you would a "chunk" bowl.

If it is a closed form I would make it in 2 pieces and finish the 2 halves (if a big form I sometimes make it in 3 parts) and join.

I would be uncomfortable not turning at all as I was taught to finish both sides of anything so that it breathes evenly. Moisture in and out.

If you need it, I can discuss in more detail the turning and joining methods.

Wayne
 
Ken Sherwin said:
Look at the red vase in my pic. Would it be reasonable to skip turning the inside of the big lower ball?
Click to expand...
Nice job on the vase!!
Wayne Miller said:
If it is an open form then I turn it later. Generally turn the outside form to final and then do the inside as you would a "chunk" bowl.

If it is a closed form I would make it in 2 pieces and finish the 2 halves (if a big form I sometimes make it in 3 parts) and join.

I would be uncomfortable not turning at all as I was taught to finish both sides of anything so that it breathes evenly. Moisture in and out.

If you need it, I can discuss in more detail the turning and joining methods.

Wayne
Click to expand...
I was taught the same about all sides being equal thickness.
 
Ken Sherwin said:
Short version: Mike's method is exactly the method I use on closed-segment rings.

Long version: This assumes the number of segments in your ring is a multiple of 4.
1. Grab the base in the headstock any way you wish and lock it. Put a chuck with Cole jaws on a live center in the tailstock.
2. Lightly grab your first ring in the Cole jaws using just 4 flathead screws. The edges of the screw heads bite into the ring and hold it very well and the marks will get turned away.
3. Without glue, lock the tailstock so the ring barely touches the base.
4. Turn the ring relative to the base and you will most likely find one place in the rotation where the ring rubs and spins freely 180 degrees later. This is because the ring faces are slightly out of parallel someplace.
5. Rock the ring back and forth within the loose area to find the point where it is still loose, then locate the nearest place your ring to ring alignment provides your desired pattern. Put matching marks on the fixed and moving rings so you can return to that spot easily.
6. Release the tailstock, glue up the ring, and lock the tailstock so that the rings almost touch.
7. Tighten the tailstock quill as you rotate the ring to evenly spread the glue across both faces of the new glue joint.
8. Rotate the ring to get the alignment marks you just made back in alignment then crank the quill down to provide the clamping pressure. This is where the tailstock prevents the ring from sliding eccentric.
9. Release the headstock lock and spin the complete headstock, piece, and tailstock by hand. Be sure your newest ring is running concentric to the headstock. This is why there's a live center in the tailstock.
10. Wipe off the glue squeezeout. Rotating the headstock makes that easy.
11. Optional - After 5 minutes, unlock the tailstock from the bed, back out the Cole jaws to allow you to pull the tailstock back, and wipe off the glue squeezeout on the inside of the new joint.
12. Lock the tailstock back against the newly attached ring and tighten the quill to provide clamping pressure for another few minutes. I find I can't get a new glue joint back apart after a total of 10 minutes of clamping using Titebond Original.

Repeat for each ring. In my shop, there are always tools to put away, floors to sweep, dogs to pet, or coffee to be traded in that few minutes I have to wait while the glue tacks up.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ken,
I really hate being a newbie & not knowing all that's needed. Same feeling I had 6 years ago when I started turning. Now I know about turning but I'm lost on creating a segmented bowl.
 
Don't hate being a newbie. Think of it this way. Do you hate going to a new city on vacation? Do you hate reading a new book? etc. Segmenting, just like any other thing you're not currently familiar with, is an opportunity to learn something that runs the risk of being enjoyable. Seeing how different people solve all the different problems in ways that work for them then choosing for yourself (or creating something else entirely) is a big part of the fun.

For example, creating my method for flattening rings was so much fun that I still get a big kick every time I use it.

I've been doing this for 9 years and don't know all that's needed. There are tools and techniques I haven't mastered yet so I guess I'm a newbie with a skew.

You have a wonderful trip to look forward to. For that matter, so do I.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top