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Open Segment process

Ed Cuttle

Ed Cuttle

PRO Member
Hi Lloyd
Just received the Segment Stomper and SegEasy plates. Will work on getting things setup this week. When you glue up each ring, what technique do you use to avoid glue squeezing into the open segment sides, do you sand each open segment after glue up to the next ring, and then, as I use Tung oil on almost all my segment projects, any trick to getting the finish from not building up in the open segment areas? Also, any special lathe speed to use as this is an open segment vs solid when turning?

Really looking forward to the first project, have it planed in Woodturner PRO. Thanks for any pointer and will get you a picture as I get started.

Thanks again
Ed Cuttle
Huntley, Il.
 
Hi Ed,
See my repsonses below in red...

Hi Lloyd
Just received the Segment Stomper and SegEasy plates. Will work on getting things setup this week. When you glue up each ring, what technique do you use to avoid glue squeezing into the open segment sides,
I keep a container of water and have Q-tips soaking in it. After gluing and putting the weight on, I take a Q-tip and squeeze the water out of it and push it through a gap. I do this a second time with the same end on the next gap and then do the next gap with the other end and then put the Q-tip back in the water.

do you sand each open segment after glue up to the next ring,
If I have a planed surface on both sides of a ring that I know that all segments are the same thickness, I’ll add another ring without turning it. There have been times when I’ve even done this for three rings in a row. Then I flatten it an repeat the process. I have adopted the notion that it is more important to start and finish a project and get on to the next one than it is to take a nearly perfect joint and spend additional time making it absolutely perfect. But that’s just me.

and then, as I use Tung oil on almost all my segment projects, any trick to getting the finish from not building up in the open segment areas?
This is a great question and I don’t have a great answer. I think it would be great to see what others recommend on this topic.

Also, any special lathe speed to use as this is an open segment vs solid when turning?
Faster is better, as long as it is a small vessel. The important thing is using tools that will shear the wood, not scrape the wood. One of the tools like the Eliminator that use a carbide disk at a pre-determined angle is one of my favorites as that is purely a shearing cut and is unlikely to result in a catch unless the angle or presentation is too steep.

If you sharpen a scraper correctly, it will use a raised burr to cut the wood and although this *could* be a shear cut, it is likely to catch and so I seldom use any type of scraper.

Really looking forward to the first project, have it planed in Woodturner PRO. Thanks for any pointer and will get you a picture as I get started.

I’ll be anxious to see a picture. I’m creating a separate category in the Gallery for Stomper creations.

Thanks again
You’re welcome. And THANK YOU, Ed.
Lloyd
 
Well, I have started on my first open segment vase. Normally, when I build a normal segment vase/bowl, I will rough turn both inside and outside after gluing up a couple rings, then continue this process.
So I started this open segment vase, and after the base and 4 segments glued up, I turned the inside some and outside. Now I added a couple more open rings, went to turn the next two, and had about 5 of the segments go flying. I have been turning very very carefully, and when I turn the outside, I use a MDF disk against the open side to keep it stable (with a live center) and turning the outside was ok, when I removed the disk/live center to turn the inside a little, that is when I lost those segments. After repairing that issue, went throught the process again, and just now lost 4 segments of the newest ring.
So, what is the trick or what am I doing wrong. Don't have a good feeling right now that this project will be able to be completed. Any help/pointers will be greatly appriciated.

Ed
 
Ed,

Another member had similar questions yesterday and I gave some fairly detailed answers that you might find useful. Read this thread and then let me know if you have additional questions:
http://woodturnerpro.com/segment-stomper/187-naive-question-first-time-os-turning.html

I'll be releasing the first couple of videos by tomorrow that address all aspects of open-segment vessels going from design to photographing the finished product. I hope that they will be a good vehicle for starting some discussions on processes that others use and I'll be glad to kick things off with these videos. I promise that you'll see some ideas and techniques you've never seen before, so I think it will be fun.

Lloyd
 
Hey Lloyd, all GREAT ideas! Makes sense on not touching that last ring. So, back to the shop and will keep you posted! Thanks again and will see how John does as well.

Ed
PS in Huntley Il, and here comes our first snowfall in 292 days!
 
Open Segment Design

Lloyd,
I'm starting to make an open segment vase as shown in the attached picture. I couldn't figure out how to do this design using the open segment provisions in WTP so I made every even numbered row zero thickness so I could create the repeating pattern shown. The white segments are the open spaces. Is there a better way to do this design in WTP?
 

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John,

There isn't an easier way of doing this since I don't currently have a way of having the row offset set to zero degrees. I have had requests for this, and it is something that I would use myself, but it touches nearly 75% of the software code and so it would be exceedingly expensive to implement and I don't want to have another paid upgrade at this time.

It is likely that I will add this in a future release but I simply don't have the programming resources available to me to do this at this time.

Beware, though, a zero rotation means that many of your segments will be glued end-grain to end-grain. If you live in a high humidity area, this will become an issue. It might even become an issue for turning it. In all segmented turnings, the strength of the vessel comes from the segments above and below segments because the grain is oriented around the vessel and if there is no wood above or below a segment, it has little to no strength.

Lloyd
 
The technique of specifying every other row to have zero thickness seems to work well for what I'm doing so I wouldn't be concerned about revising the code extensively just to add this feature. However, if you do revise the code maybe you could consider adding support for transparent segments, too.

Thanks!
 
Lloyd Johnson said:
Ed,

Another member had similar questions yesterday and I gave some fairly detailed answers that you might find useful. Read this thread and then let me know if you have additional questions:
http://woodturnerpro.com/segment-stomper/187-naive-question-first-time-os-turning.html

I'll be releasing the first couple of videos by tomorrow that address all aspects of open-segment vessels going from design to photographing the finished product. I hope that they will be a good vehicle for starting some discussions on processes that others use and I'll be glad to kick things off with these videos. I promise that you'll see some ideas and techniques you've never seen before, so I think it will be fun.

Lloyd
Click to expand...

Lloyd, looking at the Forum, I found this old post - was wondering if you did post the Videos you mention above and if so, where do I find them? can't seem to locate them on the Forum or the Home Page.
 
Johnrheyd said:
Lloyd, looking at the Forum, I found this old post - was wondering if you did post the Videos you mention above and if so, where do I find them? can't seem to locate them on the Forum or the Home Page.
Click to expand...

John,

When I made that post I had thought I had retired, but then I excepted another consulting position and had to stop work on that project. Now that I am retired I intend to get back to making project videos.

Lloyd
 
Between salmon fishing and hiking in the Sierras when are you going to carve out time for project videos? It doesn't sound like you regret retiring.
 
stuart johnson said:
Between salmon fishing and hiking in the Sierras when are you going to carve out time for project videos? It doesn't sound like you regret retiring.
Click to expand...

My next door neighbor recently retired as well. The difference, though, is that he has no hobbies and is bored to death. I think you have to approach retirement as if it were a fulltime job. Put in the effort to try to excel and then enjoy the results.

This has been a fabulous trip and I can't wait to start processing the photos. Last night, I was shooting the Milky Way over the oldest living trees on earth, the oldest of which is estimated to be 4,700 years old. Earlier in the day, I was successful in locating the Sky Rock Petroglyphs whose location is to be kept secret by anyone who successfully finds it. I put together a string of clues put together after significant research and luck was with me. During both of these events, I knew I was on sacred grounds and was awestruck.

Just to give you an idea of what I was trying to achieve photographically, I used my iPhone to photograph the screen on the back of my camera. I'll attach that image now and will attach the finished result after processing it where I'm able to add my interpretation of what I experienced.

Look at how the tree seems to be reaching for the sky and has done so every night for thousands of years. I actually had goosebumps on my goosebumps (geesebumps?)

Lloyd

image.jpg
 
Hi everyone. Have been watching some internet adds for wood glues - and was wondering if any of you have used Titebond Molding and Trim glue for your open segmenting? Adds say that it grabs quickly and has little to no run of the glue. On the surface it would seem to be perfect for doing open segmenting where you need a quick grab of the segments. Any comments? What glue do you prefer for open segmenting? I typically use Titebond II for my closed segments.
 
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