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Stave vs compound
- Thread starter Jackie J
- Start date
Jackie, I've given up keeping a list of things I don't know and switched to a list of things I do know. That list is getting smaller and smaller. Off hand I can't think of why to use a compound cut on anything but a stave. Well there is crown molding and I'm sure some other stuff.
I never say never, but I probably won't be adding Staves or Compound segments to Segment PRO anytime soon because they simply don't fit the user interface. So my comments will only be about using them in Woodturner PRO.
You can make an identical segment as either a stave or a compound segment, but the way they are designed and created are very different. To make a segment with either approach, there are four pieces of information (forgetting for now about the thickness of the segment). You need the slope, the height, the outside diameter of the bottom and the outside diameter of the top. If you know some of these things, you can solve for the missing one. Here are two scenarios:
Solve for Slope using the Stave Ring Type. If you know the outside diameters of the bottom and top and the height of the row, Woodturner PRO will solve for the slope.
Solve for the height using the Compound Ring Type. If you know the slope and the height and the outside diameter bottom, Woodturner PRO will solve for the outside diameter of the top.
When to use one or the other depends on how you are going to make the segment. If you know that you want to make a slope of 40 degrees, you should use the Compound Ring Type because it lets you specify the slope. If you specify 40 degrees and start changing the height by using your Ctrl-Up/Down keyboard arrows, you'll see that the outside diameter continually changes but the slope is always 40 degrees.
If instead, you create a row that is three inches tall and has a bottom diameter of 4", as you change the outside diameter of the top, you'll see that the slope changes.
Why is this important?
I prefer to make my segments with a fixed slope using what I call the 'Wedge System'. Basically, it lets me put the board to be cut at the angle it will be when it is glued into a ring. This lets me keep my blade at 90 degrees and set the miter at the same angle you would use if you were to cut a flat board into 12 segments as opposed to tilting your blade and using an angle with decimal places.
I wrote a fairly lengthy post about this process and included a SketchUp drawing to illustrate it. Here is the link to it:
Title: {title]
Lloyd
Jackie J
PRO Member
I solved the crown molding issue. I use those little corner pieces they make.
Thanks for the response Stuart. As y'all will find in the future, I have a lot more questions than answers.
Jackie J
PRO Member
Thanks Lloyd,
What I extracted from your response is that either will accomplish the goal, so I guess I will use stave option
as that seems less confusing to me.
Thanks for the help from all you guys.
Jackie I think we all fit that boat
It is confusing, but there is one more thing to consider. Staves are typically cut lengthwise from a board whereas segments are typically crosscut from boards. For proper grain alignment in a segmented bowl, the grain should always run around the bowl, not vertical. So regardless of which approach you choose to calculate the cutting instructions, make sure you crosscut the segments from a board which will cause the grain to run around the bowl.
If you make a stave vessel, such as something like an African drum, the grain runs vertical. Gluing those segments together is great because the glue joints are all flat grain, but if you had to add a ring to the top or bottom of it, it would be flat grain to end grain and that ring will soon pop off.
The next time I get the opportunity to do a compound segment bowl, I'll take pictures of it. Using the wedge system is exactly like cutting crown molding on a miter saw. You first put the crown molding on the fence at the slope that it will be installed on the wall/ceiling. Once you do this, you can leave your blade untilted and set your angle at 22.5 for a square corner instead of laying the board to be cut flat on the saw bed and then cutting the angle with a tilted blade and a goofy angle.
On my Wall I have several wedges specifically for this purpose and this lets me cut compound segments as quickly as I can cut flat segments and with the same amount of accuracy. Once you've tried this method, you'll never cut segments the traditional way again.
Alan Weiler
PRO Member
Here's a staved vase I am getting ready to finish. The staves were cut on the miter saw and everything else with the wedgie sled. Cherry and Wenge. All calculations from WTP.
Nice vase Alan. Please post up in the gallery when you have it finished
Very nice, Alan. The transition between the flat and stave rings works well. This is often a troublesome area.
- The default in WTP is for a flat ring. Select the ring you want to change to stave (drop down list upper left of control panel.) Note: the inputs change. So set stave height, adjust outside/inside dia of stave. The cut view will show the specifics. It will miter angle and blade tilt you need.
William Prickett
PRO Member
did you ever post a video of this on youtube or anything?
I have not made a video of this. I'll be traveling much of the summer so I'm not sure when I'll be able to do this, but I'll see what I can do.